Olin Moyles Ghost

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Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

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  53

  When will they realise that the bus isn't coming?

  by eyeslice in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was still a kid and living at home at the time, and so that must have been well over 30 years ago, that i heard ron drage (now a senior member of the uk bethel) say "if you are waiting at the bus stop it, is better to be 10 minutes early rather than miss it".

  what he was referring to of course was the then then 1975 issue; in other words armageddon has arrived yet but it just round the corner and we are a little early for it.. i don't know what brought this to my mind the other day but i got to thinking, surely if you are waiting for a bus and you get there 10 minutes early and it doesn't then turn up, how long do you wait?

  10 minutes, 15 minutes, half an hour, an hour, two hours?

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Most won't realize that the bus isn't coming. I think this scripture aptly describes what you're seeing among the old-timers:

  Proverbs 13:12 -- "Expectation postponed is making the heart sick"
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  23

  No One to Carry On!

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i recall the 'core' families that made up our little congregation in the 60's and 70's.

  i had not thought about it, but the very vast majority of those families have left zero members carrying on the 'legacy' of the 'troof'.

  here is the way it breaks down - the names have been changed to protect the innocent [or guilty].. the colsons in 1970 - dad, mom and two sons.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  I've seen this as well. For example, take the KH that I grew up in during the 1980s. Here's a synopsis of the elders with kids who are now adults:

  - Elder 1 - 3 kids total, 2 DF'd living normal "worldly" lives with "worldly" spouses and kids, 1 faded and in an "immoral" relationship

  - Elder 2 - 2 kids total, 1 inactive faded non-believer, not sure about the other kid

  - Elder 3 - 3 kids total, 1 DF'd, 1 inactive fader, 1 still going for family/friends

  - Elder 4 - 2 kids total, both still in and actually believe AFAIK

  So, out of 10 children of elders, 3 or 4 are active JWs. At least one of those 3 or 4 doesn't believe it, so that leaves 3 *at most* who are truly believing Witnesses. That's a pretty lousy success rate...and remember we're talking about elders' kids, here!
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  37

  Do/did you like to read Daily Text?

  by Albert Einstein in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i hated it.

  we actually never really did.. once, on vacations, we were with another family, they prepared food on the table for breakfast .... and then nobody could touch it for some 15 minutes, when daddy was reading daily text and asking childish questions ... family members were raising hands and answering .... we all were hungry... watching the food ... and hoping it will soon be over (i dont mean armageddon, i mean daily text...) i felt just like an idiot..... albert.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Similar to Undercover, I tried to keep a copy in my bookbag so that I wouldn't look like a slacker at the meeting for service.

  I estimate that less than half of U.S. Witnesses (can't speak for the rest of the world) read the text on a regular basis. Among those in their 20s and 30s, I would say that the number is more like 25% or less. These young JWs are too busy working overtime to pay the mortgage on their new houses, buy the latest gadgets, and take vacations.

  They feel like they're doing fine if they make most of the meetings and get out in service 2 or 3 Saturdays per month. Personal study, daily text, "improving their minstry," "reaching out" are not priorities for these gen-X Witnesses. At least that's my first-hand observation.
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  29

  TURN IN YOUR DAMN TIME - IT'S THE 5TH...

  by tresdecu in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i hate turning in time, even though it's phantom.

  do you think they phase this out soon???

  especially now that they spend so much time doctoring up the stats to make them look good.. anybody out there with some inside info?.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Oompa, you're such a trouble-maker! You should know better than to try using logic on these people.
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  50

  Was There a Fictional Work Helped You Realize the Truth About the (T)ruth?

  by BabaYaga in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  the pen really can be mightier than the sword, and even fiction often carries much weight and powerful messages.. did you read a book or watch a movie that made you think?

  did an "entertaining" work plant a seed of doubt?.

  the first one i can remember making a definate comparison to the witnesses in my mind was ray bradbury's martian chronicles.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Yes. The Bible.
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  2

  When the Music's Over...

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  cancel my subscription to the resurrection.

  send my credentials to the house of detention.

  i got some friends inside.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  turn out the lights...
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  49

  Those raised as JWs-Do you recall the path of doubts that led you to leave?

  by ithinkisee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i posted a similar topic a year and a half ago.

  i thought with all the new people it would be interesting to ask it again.

  so i began to research ... and here i am.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  My first doubt was as a six-year-old child. The subject was birthdays. I simply did not understand why the fact that two birthday celebrations in the Bible resulted in executions meant that I could not eat a cupcake with my class. My little mind could not make the logical leap. I never really understood why God would smite me if I ate a cupcake or signed a birthday card...and today I still don't. But I was a good little Witness and did what my parents told me to do.

  During the teenage years, I didn't have any real doubts about the JW religion being "The Truth." If anything, the struggle that all teenagers experience in toeing the moral line reinforced the idea that it must be The Truth. Otherwise, why would it be so difficult to be good...right?

  As I got older and saw more of the congregation politics, I developed a "fleshly view of the organization." But I always rationalized that the Old Testament patriarchs, Israelite kings, and even First Century Christians had lots of issues. Despite those issues, the rank and file were still expected to stay with the organization. An elder once gave the example of King Menassah who worshipped false gods and even sacrificed his children to them. That sort of reasoning kept me going--even if the elders/C.O./etc. had flaws and did bad things, they weren't as bad as Menassah, right?

  As I continued to get older, I became increasingly skeptical of some of the direction coming from the WTS. It seemed like they were "going beyond what is written." Comparatively minor issues such as vasectomies (condemned in 1999 WT article), discouraging college, and the like started to pile up. The answer to my questions was always to "wait on Jehovah" or to trust the FDS, and of course the old canard "where else are you going to go...nobody else is right."

  All of these unanswered questions finally became too much to sweep under the rug. I realized that my "answers" to these questions always hinged on an assumption that (1) the FDS was a sort of clergy class that we had to obey; and (2) the WTS leadership was appointed by Jesus to be that FDS. One day I realized that I had always simple accepted these two foundational facts as true. So, I decided to investigate those facts. The rest is history.
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  36

  If there was no global flood - does this mean that the Bible is not inspired?

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  do you agree that if there was no global flood, then the bible is not inspired?

  here are my thoughts.. it is pretty obvious that there was no global flood 4,000 years ago.

  ) that there were one or more large local floods in mesopotamia around the time of noah.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  @Narkissos: Thanks for your discussion about "inspiration." When I say "inspired," I mean it in the way that I was taught by the Witnesses--i.e., that the Bible is the infallible, 100% true, unalterable word of God. I was taught that there were no scientific inaccuracies or contradictions in the Bible, and that this was evidence of its "inspired" nature. If the Bible is God's word, and God cannot lie, then God's word cannot contain any lies.

  You can take that syllogism and apply it to the flood: If the global flood of Noah's day didn't happen, but the Bible says it did, then the Bible contains a lie and can't be God's word.

  Of course, this is based on my viewpoint based on being raised to believe in a fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible by the Witnesses. I recognize that there are more liberal schools of thought that rationalize some of the more embarrassing, outdated, and unscientific parts of the Bible. To me, a more reasonable response to these issues is to recognize that it is likely that no "God" had anything to do with the Bible and it's simply the work of men.
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  36

  If there was no global flood - does this mean that the Bible is not inspired?

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  do you agree that if there was no global flood, then the bible is not inspired?

  here are my thoughts.. it is pretty obvious that there was no global flood 4,000 years ago.

  ) that there were one or more large local floods in mesopotamia around the time of noah.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  @Hamster: I agree that the Bible doesn't say "global flood" in its text. But as I discussed in the first post, Genesis says that the water covered "all the tall mountains that were under the whole heavens." It seems crystal-clear that the writer is describing a global flood. Any other interpretation of that scripture directly contradicts its plain language.

  Thus, when Jesus refers to Noah's day and the flood, he is referring to the flood as described in Genesis--which, as explained above, is a global flood. To me, the only reasonable conclusion from this is that the Bible writer who penned Jesus' words believed in the global flood as described in Genesis.

  As has been well-documented, there was no global flood at the time Noah was purported to live. Thus, Genesis and the other writings contain inaccuricies. This leads to the conclusion that the Bible is not inspired.
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  16

  Republican Witnesses and Democrat Witnesses

  by inkling in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it seems to me that witnesses are political in .

  much the same way they are racist: i.e.

  but not out loud.. i recall a conversation during a coffee break.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  This is not surprising. Everyone (even JWs) has an opinion about the news, politics, etc. I know several JWs who are as partisan as any "worldly" person. Of course, whenever they have political discussions, they insert the required disclaimers such as "of course, The Kingdom is the only real hope" and "I look forward to the time when we won't have to worry about this stuff," etc.

  I noticed an odd phenomenon over the last couple years during the Obama ascendancy. Lots of JWs (like the rest of the country) were impressed with his soaring oratory and progressive ideas, especially after 8 years of GW Bush. This created cognitive dissonance, and I heard multiple Witnesses talk about how great Obama's speech was...and how that was "scary." The idea was that Obama was so smooth and politically attractive that Satan had to be playing a big role in his success.

  Another odd reaction I've seen by some Witnesses is this. They speak in favor of a particular candidate for president--and explain that they hope this person wins because they expect that Armageddon will come during his/her administration.

  I see techniques such as those described above simply as ways to get around the JW "neutrality" issue and express a political opinion.